February 2012 Weapon Changes/Option 1 Dev Comments

February 2012 Weapon Changes Option 1 - Option 2 - Option 0.3 Option 1 Dev Comments - Option 2 Dev Comments - Option 0.3 Dev Comments

Overview

Official Thread - Thread Closed Nov 17

Comments listed below are developer responses on the Option 1 thread, some may pertain to other options. Off topic, or duplicate answers will be omitted. Please direct all questions or comments to the official forums.

Developer Responses

Will each option require new weapons?

Original Post:

Posted by DuckyTheQuack
Nope don't see it happening, We are getting new tier of Weapons like it or not. Do work.

Response

Option #2 does not involve upgraded weapons in loot. They will remain as they do now.

Sev~

Why is the weapons system being changed?

Original Post:

Posted by Televangelist

Is there any reason you have to require us all to get new weapons?
Why not simply apply simple multipliers to get damage where you want it -- for example, all current staff damage multiplied by 2x or 2.5x or whatever you think is right in order to make it line up with where it "should" be?
For most of us, it will be a long, looooooooong time before we feel "done" with our weapons. And PvP damage feels just about right at the moment.
Why fix something that isn't broken (the weapons loot economy), when you can just add in some magic multipliers to fix that part?

I like most all of what you're proposing, but the "Surprise! All the weapons you've been chasing for the last couple of years are now also-ran" part really saps my enthusiasm for this.

Response

I wanted to address this.

The dev team is totally okay with new loot that supplants and overshadows old loot. Regardless of what happens in February, the basic argument of "Don't make us replace our gear" isn't going to sway us in the long term. This is an MMO, eventually there will be a new loot tier and new content to play the drops that loot and new content to play that is balanced for that loot. We don't want to fool anyone into thinking we are tentative about implementing a new loot tier... *if* it's the right time for a new loot tier.

That said:
Looking at the numbers, the low damage on staff and dagger and the fact they are mutated and thus have to be versioned on makes plans to update the weapons very very difficult to balance. In essence because of the expanded range of damage there would end up being an additional random element to expanding loot effectiveness for these weapons. This is why we were not planning on doing that.

Sev~

What are the strengths of Option 1?

Original Post

Posted by Xstar51

K. I don't like this overall, unless dual weilding is a definite go. Because it would be pretty cool to hold an axe and a sword.

I still think there should be a skill check for each skill, in addition to having one handed or two handed combat trained. Like a skill tree or something.

Response

The strength of this option is that in the end you will see a lot more diversity in melee in terms of the weapons they use.

With Option #2 if you want to do decent damage you are shoehorned into Sword, or maybe Mace/Unarmed/Axe.
With this option there are a lot of melee concepts that will still rock. You can, for example, make a rocking Heavy Weapon two dagger fighter that would be gimped in the Option #2. You can also make a pretty good Finesse Weapon - Two Weapon dagger fighter with Sneak Attack and Deception.
Neither of these concept will work with Option #2. It's more familiar, but a bunch of weapons are essentially junk. We strongly suspect that without the racial skill system to artificially prop them up Staff and Dagger will just fall off the map. It's a shame since dagger fighters are a pretty cool staple of fantasy lore and action.

Sev~

Will current racial augmentations be removed?

Original Post:

Posted by Xstar51
I like the idea of the damage aug to define each race. I would go even further and define each race by adding a bonus aug, like +3 damage reduction to undead, or +3 damage rating to shadows. This would give more flavor to each race, and allow us players to feel like there is a big different in each race.

Response

The current racial bonus augs will remain in either system.

Sev~

Will we be able to play right away without new weapons?

Original Post

Posted by silvurhawke

What about 12 years worth of maces I already have? Do they turn into light weapons or heavy weapons? And what about my quest weapons. And what about my epic mace cantrips? They turn into light weapons.

Mace gets bent over here.

Response

Yes, this is our essential loot dilemma, and the reason for some of these seemingly harsh changes to weapons.

One thing we didn't mention with this option is we wanted to add a vendor that gave out attuned and bonded temporary weapons of the appropriate grade to players. This weapon would last a month so on patch day everyone could go out hunting with their new weapon skills. It was one way we were discussing getting everyone playing within 5 minutes of logging in.
And putting in a way to spend XP without hitting the up skill button 50 billion times.

Sev~

Why do Mace spells get changed to Finesse instead of Heavy?

Original Post

Posted by silvurhawke

It doesn't increase either. Axe (same original cost) does.

Because in reality mace is a "heavy" weapon. Because it is a classic 6 credit skill just like axe. Why does axe go heavy and mace not? The devs borked mace by making a gearknight racial and now long time players have to suffer? My macer is a brute. Mace is a brutes weapon and not a finess weapon. It is used for caving in skulls and breastplates

Response

Keep in mind that's just how the Mace spells would convert. Maces themselves would drop with Heavy, Light and Finesse options.

We could just as easily convert Mace to heavy if the player base seemed to go that way. We just didn't want to screw up Gearknights that still wanted Mace as a backup weapon.

Sev~

Why are Staff spells changed to Light Weapons spells?

Original Post

Posted by Sollielle
I still don't get why you would put Staff with finesse weapons. The skill set for Staff is currently str/coord. My character is developed with this in mind. I have no problem with finesse weapons, or the quick/coord combo, but don't change the base skills of established weapons. Introduce new weapons for this skill set, but please don't change the way existing weapon skills are calculated....

Response

We want a good range of skill distribution, and figured it would be easiest for Staff to configure around the change since we don't see many Staff fighters that have configured a suit around that style.

As a Staff fighter you would pick up the Light Weapons skill and do Str/Coord. You could also go with a Heavy Weapons staff fighter and be as good as Sword and also use Str/Coord.
We are just trying to get loot items to convert to a wider range of skills so everything isn't Heavy Weapons except dagger.

Sev~

Does Option 1 require a sweeping change across all tiers, or just a new tier?

Original Post

Posted by Ruhelos
I'm hoping this is a sweeping upgrade for all loot tiers, not adding a new one. But that hasn't been answered yet.

Response

This would be a sweeping upgrade for all loot tiers, not adding a new one.

Sev~

Will players be able to change a weapon to a different type?

Original Post

Posted by Televangelist
IMHO current Staff players should be able to choose whether their existing weapons become Light Weapons or Finesse Weapons.

Response

To be honest, an existing staff player in the proposed system would just run over to the temporary weapon vendor, get a huge upgrade in damage, and probably have tons of much better replacement staves just from hunting during the first night.

Remember the proposal assumes everyone would be hunting for new weapons. If we did manage to find a complicated system to change loot weapons in place to be competitive we would also have to have a complicated way for players to determine what skill their current weapons used, which would be a really difficult and complicated task.

Sev~

(Did I mention the word complicated enough?)

In Option 1 will all damage types be available for all melee skills?

Original Post

Posted by Sollielle
But the problem is that I currently use the staff only because it is racially offered as a means to obtain blunt damage capabilities - I am a sword spec'd toon that uses this (poorer) choice of weapon for only certain situations - and I have adapted and managed loot etc. for just this reason. I still haven't seen a confirmation that all damage types would be available for all weapons - it was merely hinted at in yesterday's post. What am I missing?

Response

All damage types would not be available for all weapons. All weapon types would drop for each type of melee skill which would then give access to all damage types for each skill type.

Will UA retain all damage types?

Original Post

Posted by balas41

Sev, I asked this in the option 2, but it kind of got buried in replies late and pertained to option 1 so I'll ask it here.

If damage types remain the same for each weapon type, what would keep people from gravitating towards the UA augmentation since it covers all damage types?

Response

Like everything else, damage types would be balanced among the weapons.

Sev~

Will loot be harder to come by?

Original Post

Posted by Cuttler

So yes, in option #2 we stay at 7 choices of melee “flavor” and in #1 we get (if you say that all weapons will be avail in all 3 melee skills) to 21 choices. That may be a lot of options initially in #1 but once you do make your choice of melee category AND augmentation you will have a more difficult time finding the proper weapon to do the best damage for said choice. That's because the pool of loot weapons will be further diluted when weapons are forced into heavy, light, and finesse. This fact will make someone like me, who isn't typically lucky and isn't typically rich, have to re-gear my character with the new high end weapons inside that diluted pool. Yes you will now say that I will be able to use heavy hammers along with my beloved sword (of which I will be only able to use the heavy ones) but if it's an acid hammer it would be no good to me as it won't fit my augmentation.

I understand that you are trying to address this pool dilution with maybe finding a way convert or reimburse us for our current weapons but when it IS time to release a new tier (and it will be some day even if it was determined that we are not ready for it yet) then this dilatation fact will come into play if option #1 has been chosen as the way to go.

It is also not going to stop the best of the worst choices from dropping onto the corpse of my kills (see unlucky) or anyone elses and go well gee, that sucks, that no one is going to want this awesome weapon (like we say now for staff). That's because there is no way that 21 choices will ever all be made viable to the point where someone will play it and want said fantastic weapon.

Response

You bring up good points about loot dilution, as did a few posters before you. While there are more raw options in this incarnation, there are some mitigating circumstances.

First, more weapons will be valuable to the player base as a whole. If a weapon has top damage and good spells (ie. Blooddrinker) then in this new system there is a much better chance someone will want it. While a top damage staff with Bloodthirst is currently not in high demand, a top damage Heavy Staff with Bloodthirst will be far more likely to be valuable in the new system.

Second, players who are less concerned about concept can swap their Mastery to match a top weapon they found. There is a group of players that will gladly accept wielding a Staff, Dagger, Sword or Mace if it means have access to top damage. For these players finding a weapon is much easier, as it means getting a weapon from one of three pools. This also means that weapons you find that are top damage and have good spells are much more likely to sell and feeds back into the first point.

In the end the number of weapons that will be valuable to the player base goes up dramatically in this system even if the weapon isn't good for a particular concept.

Sev~

Edit: We have not revealed how difficult it will be to choose a new Mastery, but it will probably be similar to a respec of skills.

Can I move my weapon augmentations from an old weapon to a new one?

Original Post

Posted by BakuBaku
So whore alt currency now? Stock up on extra slayers before then? Grab extra bunny feet?

Response

If we went with Option #1 and we had new weapons in all tiers of loot we would be looking at an option that would let players move imbues, slayers and mods from an old style weapon to a new weapon.

We can't move tinks though. It's a technical limitation with how they were implemented.

Sev~

Do I need to get all my quest weapons again?

Original Post

Posted by BakuBaku

Well whatever option wins...wins. Can't fight the poll.
Option 1 would be more appealing if I didn't have to find more weapons somehow. My current "top weapons" are gonna be mediocre and the grind beefing em up pointless. Maybe...if sword couldn't swing a dagger or a staff. Augs don't feel unique enough...but that's my opinion.

What about existing weapons for quests? 12 years of questables goin down the potty? I don't see you guys updating every weapon/wand to reflect the changes come Feb...

Response

Quest weapons would under option #1 all be updated to reflect the changes, and existing quest weapons would inherit those changes because they are not mutated. We would release information about as many quest weapons as we could; particularly the quest weapons that currently are available in suites, so players could spent a couple of months getting the quest weapons that best serve their template.

Sev~