Forum:February Patch

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With the feb patch coming, so are a TON of changes to the wiki. We need to create spell pages for the new creature buff spells, remove/retire old weapon buff spell pages, update all old quest armor with a weapon skill buff to the new buff. All quest weapons/rares will need to be updated. Rare crystals will need to be retired/replaced. I think the weapons pages can stay separated since you will still aug one weapon type. These are just initial thoughts, anyone else? --Immortalbob 01:47, 24 January 2012 (EST)

It's going to be a lot of work. Hell, we haven't even finished updating all the quest/trophy experience values from the Learning From Experience patch over a year ago. And now every weapon entry is going to have to be redone, along with a ton of other stuff. Although I left for other reasons, I'm glad I got out when I did. The wiki and the game are gonna be a mess for quite some time. Now, that said, I have a few suggestions: Melee/Missile weapon templates: Leave the " Weapon Type = " variable, since, as you said, there is supposed to be some aug for that. On the missile weapon template, simply add [[Category:Missile Weapon]] to the template itself, if my understanding is correct that bow/xbow/TW are all being merged into Missile Weapon skill. On the melee weapon template, add a new variable above weapon type, " Weapon Skill = " with the options being Heavy, Light, and Finesse. An automated find and replace could handle adding this variable (left blank) to every template, but getting the new skill type added will probably have to be done by hand. Skills: Update the table on the main skill page - should be simple enough. Update the {{Skills}} template, replacing the Weapons section with Heavy/Light/Finesee/Missile Optionally, add a "Retired" skills section at the bottom. Here we can list all the old item appraisal skills and the weapon skills. Keep all the old skill pages around as historical references, but remove any skill categories so they do not get listed as currently available skills. Spells: Keep old weapon skill spells around, but remove categories. Treat them as retired, and add the new spell buffs. Misc: Anything that is no longer in the game due to these changes, e.g. weapon skill rare crystals, should be updated to be listed as retired. Make sure to check changes to the Sunstone Gauntlets, Ruined Amulets, Title Bestower Guild, Skill Temples, and any other things that had something for every weapon skill. I have no idea how the devs are going to handle some of this stuff. Ruined Amulets for example have an amulet for each weapon skill, but these are turned in for life prots/attributes. Not sure how this will be handled after the changes. Be sure to check out things that used weapon skills for a skill check. Atlans/Isparians, Composite Bow/Xbow/TW, crafting a few of the Arm, Mind, Heart items, and probably a few other things that aren't coming to mind right now. Good luck to all the contributors that are still playing after Feb. --An Adventurer 05:44, 24 January 2012 (EST)

I agree with all of this, we need a plan of attack... This may be what we need to work from as a list: [1] --Immortalbob 11:59, 24 January 2012 (EST)

A lot of things we need to know!! [2] --Immortalbob 12:14, 24 January 2012 (EST)

I've gone ahead and mocked up how i think the weapons list pages should sorta look post patch at User:Immortalbob/Sandbox using information in [3]. Also, I've made changes to the weapon template (now residing in Template:Sandbox) Ex: User:Immortalbob/Sandbox3. Any suggestions? --Immortalbob 13:52, 24 January 2012 (EST)

Oh, crap, I hadn't even thought of the weapon pages. I think those have to be completely redone. If we want the wiki to be organized the same way after the patch, that is, weapon listings based on the skill they use, we need to retire the Axes, Swords, etc pages and have Heavy Weapons, Light Weapons, Finesse Weapons, Missile Weapons, Two Handed Weapons (this is going more or less untouched, right?) and Thrown Weapons if they are not merging that with bow/xbow. I have not been keeping up on all the details since I've quit, but from what I understand players are more likely to pick up one on the new combat skills and use all types of weapons (e.g. heavy weapons spec'd and using swords, maces, and axes) rather than picking up multiple skills and sticking to a single weapon type (e.g. trained/spec'd heavy/light/finesse and only using swords). So IMO it would make the most sense to list weapons by their new skill rather than by spec bonus. Then on the new weapon skill pages, we'd add a new column "Weapon Type" for the specialization bonus weapon classes of Sword, Axe, Spear, etc. As for your weapon template mock-up, looks good to me, I can only think of a few minor tweaks: Change the Category from "Heavy Combat" to "Heavy Combat Weapon". This goes with the naming convention we already have with Category:Two Handed Weapon, Category:Thrown Weapon, and Category:UA Weapon. Change the order the categories appear in so that they are listed as <Item Type> | <Weapon Skill> | <Specialization>, e.g.: Weapon | Heavy Combat Weapon | Axe. --An Adventurer 02:27, 25 January 2012 (EST)

Weapon template sandbox updated, If that's good then i'm going to move the changes over prior to the patch so we dont have to hammer the wiki while lots of users are trying to access after patch.

I poked around in the code a bit. You can see my test page on User:An Adventurer/Sandbox 2. Removed the weapon type options for bow/xbow/tw. No idea why they were in the melee weapon template. moved Two Handed from Weapon Type to Weapon Skill. Updated wield/buffed wield reqs to display Weapon Skill instead of Weapon Type. I noticed a few errors with this. When you set Weapon Skill to "Heavy" for example, it just displays as Your base Heavy must be at least 250 to wield this item. So, we either need to make sure we always use the exact skill name for this variable, or have it set up so putting in Heavy/HW/Heavy Weapon will all display "Heavy Weapon Skill," or whatever the skills will be called. On that note, Could some please make a post on the turbine boards requesting, on behalf of the wiki, for the exact names of the new skills? This would make pre-patch work so much easier. I'd do it, but I cannot post on their forums without an active account, or even use private messages. Way to go turbine. --An Adventurer 02:23, 26 January 2012 (EST)

I sent a PM to Sev, hopefully he responds. --Immortalbob 15:24, 26 January 2012 (EST)

Heavy Weapons Light Weapons Finesse Weapons Sneak Attack Dual Wield Recklessness Dirty Fighting Shield --Immortalbob 10:16, 27 January 2012 (EST)

Well, while that is helpful, its certainly a bit of a pain for the wiki. We previously went with, for example, Sword for the skill and Swords for the weapons. If Heavy Weapons is the skill name that takes the name for the item page. We'll have to come up with something else, I guess. I'm curious, could you ask if the skill "Two Handed Combat" is changing to "Two Handed Weapons" to match the naming convention? --An Adventurer 10:40, 27 January 2012 (EST) edit: Also, Missile Weapons is not in your list. Is that skill still planned for feb and can you see about confirming the name for that one? --An Adventurer 10:44, 27 January 2012 (EST)

In the list section, I've changed the skills to be the exact name of the skill, and the weapon listing pages are now "List of <type> Weapons" Two reasons for this: We've been trying to avoid having articles end in parentheses (for easier external linking) and I had already removed the (Skill) from most/all skill pages. The skill name is in game, where as the list of weapons is on the wiki only. For naming purposes, in-game trumps wiki only. --An Adventurer 01:24, 28 January 2012 (EST)

"Missile Weapons" confirmed. --Immortalbob 23:30, 27 January 2012 (EST)

Preliminary working page for all those weapon sets we have on the wiki, those need to be reworked too... User:Sanddh/Sandbox Going for a sortable table for now, since that might be easiest especially with the more complicated weapons such as the palenqual and renegade palenqual. --Sanddh 22:30, 27 January 2012 (EST)

Another thing to start thinking about now: So, every weapon entry we have, except possibly some 2H weapons, is going to have a retired version (The current version using current skills). What are we going to do about retired versions of weapons that are still in the game, and I assume have to be updated to use the new skills? The first weapon that comes to mind is the Sword of Lost Light. All of the info on Sword of Lost Light (Retired) would be moved to Sword of Lost Light (Retired 1). And all of the info on Sword of Lost Light would be moved to Sword of Lost Light (Retired 2). But what about those old school SoLLs that are still in the game? I assume they'll have to use Heavy Weapon Skill, since Sword won't exist. How do we handle an updated version of a retired item? --An Adventurer 02:44, 25 January 2012 (EST)

Regarding newly retired weapons, (Retired 1/2) works for me. For updated current retired items it's probably gonna only be damage/skill changes. Those can be easily added to the notes section. --Immortalbob 11:53, 25 January 2012 (EST)

Scratch that, Retired pages are generally used for items that still "exist" but are obtainable only via trade (with exception to rares). Why not just notate the old damage in the Notes section? --Immortalbob 12:05, 25 January 2012 (EST)

We don't really have any rules on when to make a retired version. For example, I think they added mana c mods to all quest wands a long time ago, but we dont have both the pre and post patch as different versions. I guess a general rule could be, if the individual item was specifically targeted for an update (like, for example, the green mire grave updates and the changes to the Yari) it is a new version, but if its general updates like this across a wide range of weapons, its a stat tweak. So, I think your idea sounds fine. If it is a retired version of a weapon that is still in the game (e.g. old model SoLL), and they just changed the skill/upped the dmg, then update the item entry and in the notes state "During the Feb 2012 Event, the Skill to use this item was changed from Sword to Heavy Weapon, and the damage was changed from 10-20 to 12-24." --An Adventurer 02:37, 26 January 2012 (EST)

It might still be a good idea to archive the panel images, maybe have a retired version of the existing images on the "Discussion" tab, simply for historical reference. Atarax 07:55, 26 January 2012 (EST)

I think not adding another retired version, but adding something to the note section is a better idea, since indeed none of the currently existing items will keep the current stats. However, we somehow have to keep track on which weapons have been updated to the new stats and which still need to be researched. Probably the more popular ones will be updated quickly, but others won't (think about all those different versions of the renegade palenqual weapons, yikes...) I agree with keeping the old panel images, if only that until now, we are not even complete on those old stat panels, so it will probably take a long time to collect the new ones. However, to avoid confusion, is maybe an idea to write a bot (I am not able to I have to admit) which automatically puts a heading over any current (Melee & Missile) weapon stats panel in the discussion page with "pre-feb 2012" (or a sub-page)? That way we at least will know if a panel image has been updated or we still need to collect a new one. And I don't even want to think about all the quest armor which has some kind of weapon buff spell... --Sanddh 21:56, 27 January 2012 (EST)

One way to keep track of which items have been updated is to use the currently linked spells as an index to what hasn't been changed yet. For example, if I look up all items that fall into Special:WhatLinksHere/Sword_Mastery_Other_VI, I know that anything listed hasn't been touched since there will be no items that have this spell anymore. So going through all the items linked to obsolete spells should clear up a lot of items. We would also need a way to handle items without spells (i.e. Cragstone's Axe), but have had their skill/requirements, or stats change as well. Atarax 04:18, 28 January 2012 (EST)

The List

Add items here that are missing, and Complete after items that have been updated/created.

Here is a list of everything I can think of that will need to get updated: Articles related to Item changes: Items - weapons section Weapons - possibly including the weapon sets links, to state which weapon uses which new skill List of Finesse Weapons (create) List of Heavy Weapons (create) List of Light Weapons (create) List of Missile Weapons (create) List of Two Handed Weapons - Move Two Handed Weapons to this page. Axes (retire) Maces (retire) Swords (retire) Spears (retire) Daggers (retire) Staves (retire) Unarmed Weapons (retire) Bows (retire) Crossbows (retire) Atlatls and Thrown Weapons (retire) Weapons#Weapon Sets - subdivide each set into Magic, Missile, Heavy Melee, Light Melee and Finesse Melee Combat, example:User:Sanddh/Sandbox Every article for melee/missile weapons - The current pages need to archived as the retired versions, pages will need wiki template updates and new stats/skill reqs added Loot - This will need major revisions, and we will also want to archive current info somehow. Articles related to Skill changes: Attributes - individual attribute pages will need their skill lists updated Skills - update both skill listings and racials, as those are going away Finesse Weapons (create, these names are my best guess based on naming convention for Two Handed Combat) Heavy Weapons (create) Light Weapons (create) Missile Weapons (create) Dual Wield (create) Dirty Fighting (create) Recklessness (create) Sneak Attack (create) Shield (create) Axe (retire) Mace (retire) Sword (retire) Spear (retire) Dagger (retire) Staff (retire) Unarmed Combat (retire) Bow (retire) Crossbow (retire) Thrown Weapons (retire) Character Creation - Race/Heritage and Skills sections will need updating Character Templates - Most of these templates will no longer be possible. They should be archived and new templates (including any new in-creation templates) should be added. Character Races New Player Guide & Returning Player Guide - both of these are fairly incomplete and outdated anyway. Weapon Mastery (create) Class Guides: Beginner's Guide to Playing an Archer Beginner's Guide to Playing a Mage Beginner's Guide to Playing a Warrior Advanced Guide to Playing an Archer Advanced Guide to Playing a Mage Advanced Guide to Playing a Warrior Quests/Content with heavy ties to skills being retired: Arm, Mind, Heart Quest - uses axe and spear for skill checks Atlan Weapons Quest - uses weapon skills for skill checks Bestowers' Guild of Dereth Composite Bow Quest - uses bow/xbow/tw for skill checks Harbinger Quest Heritage Masks - with racials going away, these masks should be checked for updates Isparian Weapons - uses weapon skills for skill checks Ruined Amulets and related quests - Nuhmudira's Boon Quest and Sunstone and Opal Gauntlets Quest Skill Redistribution Tesserae Tier 1 Rares Spectral Mastery Crystals Spell Research Bandit Hilt Quest - Retiring as multi-strike property will drop in loot. Per NoWorries [4] Spells: Finesse Weapons Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (create, these names are my best guess based on naming convention for Two Handed Combat) Finesse Weapons Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Heavy Weapons Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Heavy Weapons Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Light Weapons Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Light Weapons Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Missile Weapons Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Missile Weapons Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Dual Wield Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Dual Wield Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Dirty Fighting Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Dirty Fighting Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Recklessness Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Recklessness Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Sneak Attack Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Sneak Attack Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Shield Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Shield Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (create) Axe Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Axe Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Bow Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Bow Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Crossbow Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Crossbow Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Dagger Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Dagger Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Mace Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Mace Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Spear Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Spear Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Staff Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Staff Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Sword Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Sword Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Thrown Weapons Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Thrown Weapons Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Unarmed Combat Ineptitude (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Unarmed Combat Mastery (Spell) and all sub-spells (retire) Page templates, wiki templates, misc Ammunition Template - possibly needs updating depending on what happens with missile weapons Melee Weapon Template - Complete Added new field to template page. --Immortalbob 14:06, 26 January 2012 (EST) Missile Weapon Template - Complete Nothing needs to be added here. --Immortalbob 14:06, 26 January 2012 (EST) {{Ammunition}} - possibly needs updating depending on what happens with missile weapons {{Melee Weapon}} - Complete - Live, all weapons need to be updated with the new "Weapon Skill = * Weapons" {{Missile Weapon}} - Complete Added Category:Missile Weapon to top of template. --Immortalbob 10:28, 27 January 2012 (EST) {{Skills}} - Complete I have made an updated version at User:An Adventurer/Sandbox {{Weapon Links}} MediaWiki:MenuSidebar (will need various links added and removed) Category:Missile Weapon Complete Category:Heavy Weapon Complete Category:Light Weapon Complete Category:Finesse Weapon Complete --An Adventurer 06:00, 25 January 2012 (EST)